Having been gone for the holidays I logged in to find ground zero overrun with players trying in one way or another to claim the area for themselves.  Now, I respect the bravery, pluck, and downright balls of these fine folks to stake such a bold claim but I found it problematic as I was shot while doing basic looting.  This of course was entirely legitimate but got me thinking that my standard loot ground was being wrested from me at gunpoint.  No doubt that was the point. 

Well .  . . . we can't be havin' that!  I will start this conflict simply enough.  Those holed up in ground zero MUST be removed.  My opening volley is this:  having built in the zero zone all players should be aware there are no protections offered there of ANY kind.  All looting, shooting, blowing up, tearing down or general mayhem is permitted in that zone without regard for stop signs prefabs, or keystones.  I thus call on all players to begin to process of removing these folks from their comfy abodes within the city.  I also call on the Zorg to rise!

  My opening volley is this:  having built in the zero zone all players should be aware there are no protections offered there of ANY kind.  All looting, shooting, blowing up, tearing down or general mayhem is permitted in that zone without regard for stop signs prefabs, or keystones.  I thus call on all players to begin to process of removing these folks from their comfy abodes within the city.  I also call on the Zorg to rise!

See that is what I always thought too. Any building in any prefab offered no protection. However it appears it has changed. So you can only make a hole big enough to get in and knock over a glass jar or two.

3.  Any bases/structures built in the central city hub are subject to immediate attack/raid/PVP. Stop signs mean nothing in the central city or it's immediate surroundings. You cannot protect a prefab (Existing building) from raids. If you take over a prefab, stop signs are meaningless and you are opening yourself up to being raided.

5.  When raiding bases that are not protected by stop signs, only destroy what is necessary to gain access. When looting, only take what you need such as some food, water, ammo and a weapon and only if you desperately need it to survive.  Do NOT clean "someone out".  If you are not certain what is acceptable behavior ask yourself this - "Will this be a dick move?". If the answer is yes then don't do it.

No Aknot, nothing has "changed." That is how it has always been, at least since I joined. Prefabs only mean you cannot stop sign them. It isn't about "you can only knock over a glass jar or two" anymore than it is "if I sneeze at certain players they PM madman crying bloody murder." Although the second has seemed true on occasion. Remember when one build someone destroyed every munitions box in GZ? We could still do so now but we want people to come for possible fights.

As it stands now, and always has, just because someone has a prefab does not mean you can raze it to the ground. Just because it is in GZ does not mean you can raze it to the ground. This build seems unique in that people mostly stayed close to GZ and we decided to occupy it to ramp up PVP.

I do see the dilemna WisenGrim and I would be in favor of discussing GZ as being no holds-barred. But madman's intent is on the next build make GZ entirely PVE. Aknot can speak to that. But we really have no need of loot, I am sure most don't, and if i was playing a survival game and I was alone/smaller group...I would avoid large cities and only venture in with care. Especially if I knew it was occupied.

Making GZ open to any and everything certainly would make it interesting, and I'd be for that. But while you were away there was a movement to make it less PVP and that side won.

There are other cities to loot, and there are other ways (plenty) to get loot. We have taken over several structures in order  to help secure our area, but by no means do we have land claims on every block. I would hope that people like Grim who wish to PVP/and raid the established buildings there would do so. Our duels with The Zorg have been fun so far, amicable and complimentary. For the record we got raided (we left a side open so it could be raided), and CMonster played it up as cabinet looting. If they had blocked up that side and forced us to destroy it I wouldn't have cared, but for that record I mentioned...we did not seek retaliation or revenge after being hit.

I think letting prefabs be destroyed is interesting, but allowing bases to be destroyed even if inside GZ is potentially a slippery slope. I am not all together opposed to it, but I am boggled that everyone thought GZ is anything goes. I'll go look at the rules again.

For the record I'd also like people who raid bases, even though they have stop signs, lose that protection. Just as if I build a tower near your base and harass you, I would expect you to be allowed to raze it as it isn't my legitimate base and you should be able to defend yourself. I think it's common sense there.

See i look at it this way:

I take a prefab for what it is. It is part of the game that I can interact with. Just because someone slapped down a KS does not change the fact of what it is. Especially when it is a part of the game that houses 'loot'.

There can be a line (those little corner bldgs with sinks/lockers) but when it comes to Apts, Police Stations, etc. I should be able to go in and remove your Kstone and everything in there.

So where the rule states "You cannot protect a prefab (Existing building) from raids." That means you can only go in and "take what you need such as some food, water, ammo and a weapon and only if you desperately need it to survive.  Do NOT clean "someone out".  If you are not certain what is acceptable behavior ask yourself this - "Will this be a dick move?". If the answer is yes then don't do it." Which is to me only an entrance big enough to get in and out and knock over a glass jar or two.

A dick move (and no dont take that the wrong way.. ) is someone taking over a POI/PreFab like an Apt, Police Station etc. WITH the ways the rules are set and not expecting to be ransacked and looted of everything.

Now if someone took one of those empty or almost empty lots (garage hint/hint) and built placing stop signs I wouldn't bat an eyelash. The person is looking for a challenge with the Zed attacks and scavengers of GZ, not a dick move but if someone went in and destroyed their place dick move.... within the rules sorta but dick move.

People should not be raiding bases if they have stop signs on their own base... UNLESS of course they are raiding a base that is using a prefab or in GZ.......

The presence of the OBEY tower in Ground Zero was a delightful revelation for myself, in as much as it provided an immediate PVP place with a clan who generally has players online.  Therefore I received this recon information with delight, and put a raid on the top of the "to do" list.

I was hoping to incite war so that the Zorg could motivate their respective militants for general activity, but the OBEY clan has proven to be a shrewd collection of diplomats who have carefully angled their words.  As yet the Zorg have still been unable to reacquire their sham sandwiches, but we have plans to help make that happen.

Couple days ago, BP capped one of our crew when he was out gathering scrap iron, which resulted in a gunnery duel between BP and myself.  We hit each other numerous times, but he finally got me square in the face.  I should have kept moving, but I was also in position to do the same to him, but with a fatal split-second delay.  Ended the day with a satisfaction at having the pleasure of dueling with the OBEY, and look forward to my chance at redemption.

Also, when we went into the recent raid I understood that none of the structures were given the safeguards of stop signs.  However, in the interest of keeping the OBEY clan intrigued enough to remain online so they can fear the possible retaliation of the mighty Zorg, we refrained from attacking the main tower (which was not a prefab), destroying more than was needed to feel the satisfaction of entry (Except when Fillman tripped and accidentally dropped six TNT on the trestle bridge), or altering the environment in such a way that it could be interpreted as griefing.

The beautiful thing is, I look forward to logging on so Zorg can run patrols into GZ and cap OBEY members as they go about their business.  Of course Zorg claim the entire map in the general sense, but we are more than willing to coordinate with people who respect our mission to unite mankind under the enlightened unity of the Horde.