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Author Topic: Rules surrounding Ground Zero  (Read 1585 times)

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guest215

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Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« on: May 26, 2015, 04:17:38 pm »
I have wanted to change this for a time, I do not like the north 0,0 or 0-10,0 area as being pve.

I believe there needs to be something more clear, and larger so that we avoid mistakes etc.

A few considerations are making every connected biome around GZ pvp, but PVE can raid them. after that, east and west we goto 0,0 line. normal rules then apply.

I could try laying down stop signs east and west (or some other sign) for 5k outlining a danger zone that says you're entering pvp territory. Issues is biomes don't line up evenly as I go...

I could use radiated earth to dictate... same issue.

This whole division complicates things immensely but basically a 10 block buffer is too fine a line. People build at 11 N, pvp could build under that. What if he gets shot at 9,0? bleh.

Ideally I'd like to have ti so a swath east/west of GZ for a distance was no man's land, but again the biomes don't connect.

Yes, this may make things "difficult' for PVE players, but only because people seem to want to take a single player approach and wonder why it seems harder in a multiplayer game.

I could make Ground zero much larger, but then you lose the POIs in it, and the reason to go there, and we lose interaction.

The reason I don't go back to stop signs is because some people do want peace of mind, but it will come with the caveat of less loot as all the other PVE players cordon off loot areas.

Ideally, if I could make the GZ biome HUGE with the city at the center, I would. So that it requires a biome journey to get to the city. It isn't that simple,  though.

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Offline Alton

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2015, 05:30:57 pm »
Just an idea,

Why not make gz pve only and everything else pvp. Limit the buildings people can take if you please. So no hardware or book stores, for instance, but player built and other buildings are fine but only one. No container destruction. Solo players can travel however far they want and same for looting. The only prob I see is loot will be hard to find in gz so make a unenforceable rule of only take what you need and you have to travel for loot.

Having said all that I liked the stop sign rule as long as people with a stop signed base should not raid.

stardigan

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2015, 06:32:41 pm »
I don't think we need to change how it works at all for now. All of these solutions seem needlessly complicated for a small mistake that one person made. The only way I can see the current system being improved upon is by making GZ the ONLY PvP biome and the rest of the map PvE. This way you know exactly where to look for it if you want it (and with it being a small area, you won't have to look far).

tiara

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2015, 06:44:39 pm »
I know you're trying to make things easier with this and with the mods, etc., but I'm starting to have a hard time keeping up with all the changes from day to day

The current system really does seem pretty good. It's easy to remember and easy to check. We have an entire PvP biome at 0,0 and then the rest of the map divides along a single line north/south. What is the problem with people being responsible for their own location? It's fun to be in that desert that spans the border. You really have to be aware of your location at all times.

If people are building at ten yards across the line, they should be aware that misfires and mistakes are going to happen. If someone is ganked in the far north, it can be dealt with the same way it is now (individually, with people coming forward to apologize or make amends with wellness boosts, etc.)

Shifting the border one entire biome north of the 0,0 line won't work, as people will be required to uncover the whole biome on the map before they can tell what type of zone they're in.

I know I'm still new around here, but it seems that we have a pretty small population on a really massive map. Making the PvP area even bigger sounds like it'll be even harder to find the handful that are interested in shooting each other.

guest215

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2015, 07:45:32 pm »
I don't see the current system changing. it just seems to make more sense to me to make a larger buffer than a little line.

And my thoughts are not a knee-jerk reaction to one mistake one person made. This whole 0,0 thing goes back a ways.

There have been multiple mistakes. I like to think ahead and avert incidents before they arise, and remember here I am asking for people's input, not announcing a change.


Offline SilensVentus

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 08:51:25 am »
Greetings,

I voted ;Make the immediate connected biomes PVP where PVE can raid, and a buffer zone dividing those after.

But after voting I don't think that covers what I thought. So ignore my vote. None of the choices work for me (other than leaving it alone, kinda)

So - I can concur that "10" seems to be too small a buffer zone (but truth be told, people should be able to know where they are and expect to possibly be killed if you plant yourself 10.00000000000000000000001.  :o)

I think the biome BUFFER proposed is far too great. However, since I agree 10 is far too small, why not something like 500/1000 out from 0,0 N/E/S/W if you want to forgo N/S (or keep the simple N/S).

Then you have a nice small "square" and I am fairly certain the biomes don't end in the small amount of distance outwards from 0,0. That should make it far enough away fron 0,0 and a larger distance that people can be sure what zone they are in .

“Man's maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child at play.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche

guest215

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2015, 04:06:49 pm »
I'm thinking the same SV, and it's darn near impossible to line it all up due to the biomes not lining up.

I don't see it changing, I am experimenting with making GZ biome larger so that people have to travel farther through a wasteland to get to the city.

I am also trying to make the city itself larger, 6x6 or 9x9, but the rwg and prefab spawns are tricky.

The best way is to probably leave it alone, unless there is a way to build a border of radiated earth, or signs along the latitude.

guest243

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2015, 11:22:57 am »
Problems with current system: 
Hard to know if you're in PvE or PvP land

Problems with proposed systems:
Bigger buffer - same
Connected biomes - same

Have you considered making 0,0 Wasteland City, *plus* all _blank_ biomes PVP? 

For example, every single Burned biome is PvP.  If you get killed inside that biome, all is fair.  Rivers become natural buffers.  This will also allow PvP in more places around the World and more dangerous to cut across.

Just an idea. 

Offline MADMAN

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2015, 11:27:24 am »
Problems with current system: 
Hard to know if you're in PvE or PvP land

Problems with proposed systems:
Bigger buffer - same
Connected biomes - same

Have you considered making 0,0 Wasteland City, *plus* all _blank_ biomes PVP? 

For example, every single Burned biome is PvP.  If you get killed inside that biome, all is fair.  Rivers become natural buffers.  This will also allow PvP in more places around the World and more dangerous to cut across.

Just an idea.

That is NOT a terribly bad idea. I seem to remember something almost exactly like that coming up in discussion a while back. Not sure why we didn't pursue it. Probably just got lost amongst the host of other issues we were dealing with at the time.

Thoughts h0tr0d?

Offline SilensVentus

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2015, 02:27:29 pm »
Problems with current system: 
Hard to know if you're in PvE or PvP land


Problems with proposed systems:
Bigger buffer - same
Connected biomes - same

Have you considered making 0,0 Wasteland City, *plus* all _blank_ biomes PVP? 

For example, every single Burned biome is PvP.  If you get killed inside that biome, all is fair.  Rivers become natural buffers.  This will also allow PvP in more places around the World and more dangerous to cut across.

Just an idea. 


While I am still not against a change to the current "method" of identification - the bolded part above just does not make sense to me (not singling you out Andydahl....several others have mentioned the same).

Look, you spawn on a new map and you decide to PVP. You now live south of 0,0. You decide to PVE, you now live North of 0,0. As a PVPer you decide to take a trip. You already know you are in the South and can be killed. Other than knowing when NOT to kill, you can move around freely...unless moving directly North. IF so, you check on your map to see when you are "near" North. Once over, you don't kill any more. "But if I stop and look at my map for that I could be shot while traveling the South!".  Doubtful. It takes under 3 seconds to check the map and see your coords and close it. It takes far more time when you are checking inventory, etc.

For the PVEers, I would say the VAST majority of us never venture near South. And if we do, we are damn sure to keep an eye on the coords with that split second check.....which of course, we can take much more time, not that it is required.


All the above aside, I do like your suggestion of certain Biomes for PVP. Not that I HAVE a concern, since I do not PVP, but using the Burnt Forest and Wasteland as the specified examples......don't those occur less often?? I travel well into the 20000's and those two Biomes are "rare" in my travels. Wouldn't want to see the PVPers limit their playground.
“Man's maturity: to have regained the seriousness that he had as a child at play.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche

guest243

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2015, 02:41:31 pm »
Sure, it doesn't take long to check.  I agree.  I should have said "Impossible to know if you're in PvE or PvP Land, by sight alone (outside of the Ground Zero City @ 0,0)."  If PvP was in specified biomes only, it's obvious.

In reality, changing the rules to include touching biomes as PvP play would exacerbate this "problem", as you would have no concrete way to know if you're in a biome that touches, at least until after getting Ground Zero on your map.  And with the bigger biomes, this would become even more difficult (to know exactly where you are).

I really don't care one way or another, as I'm not very interested in PvP.  But, I am interested in always knowing if I'm safe or not.

One more thing - It certainly wouldn't have to be Burnt or Wasteland that's PvP.  Might be kinda fun to make Forests PvP.  Dangerous to go where the cool stuff is.

Or maybe make it a PvP server and only PvE in certain biomes.  Either way, I'm cool.  Trying to survive is what it's all about. Just my opinions...

guest215

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2015, 02:48:46 pm »
I considered it andy, but did not want to deny the use of any biome to anyone. There simply is no perfect solution, and this is part of the issue I foresaw with the division into N V S. The N v S dynamic has alot of possibilities and good things; however, so we won't be doing away with it.

Once random world generation is more modifiable and adjustable, then perhaps I can dictate am stretch of radiated earth, as an example.

I think I'll do an instructional video on what I just tried and why it didn't work as well as people may want. Showing you how the rwg mixer file works, and the obstacles.

Offline Alton

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2015, 02:54:11 pm »
I love the idea of certain biomes being pvp and others being pve. Personally I say make it a pvp server and have one or maybe two biomes pve. To pick the biome put it up to a vote? Just my opinion.

Offline MADMAN

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2015, 02:56:43 pm »
I love the idea of certain biomes being pvp and others being pve. Personally I say make it a pvp server and have one or maybe two biomes pve. To pick the biome put it up to a vote? Just my opinion.

The community is split virtually 50/50, PvE and PvP. It would not be fair to limit either parties play area and that is why we split the map down the middle.

Edit: Also, I would estimate 80% or more of the new players we get now tell me they were drawn to our server because of the North(PvE)/South(PvP) setup.

Offline Alton

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Re: Rules surrounding Ground Zero
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2015, 03:23:23 pm »
Yes I am one of those pve players, it just looked like a good idea that had some support, oops.

 

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