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Author Topic: Loot re-spawn timer poll.  (Read 4035 times)

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h0tr0d

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 09:55:04 pm »
\
Spawn, no spawn... all the same to me.  I've pretty much given up on PVP.

Don't give up Cookie, I think future iterations will encourage it. I can also speak to the fact me and my allies are bored, and want to PVP\, much as thor and feragh did, we will venture forth to find other players soon enough. Mainly we are waiting for an update that gives us stability and time with a number of caveats. Not a small part of this would be rafts!

Aknot

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2014, 06:31:28 am »
So with nothing to add to the conversation you stoop to judging my typing grammar? And yes I would say making a room full of gun safes that respawn multiple times a day that you can loot in the safety of your home is gaming the system and is not legit, if you want to do that go PVE where it can’t bother anyone. Then to try and force your Candy Crush version of the game on us and not be at least open to the idea of even trying another way for a short time when we have tried your way for weeks. Gezzz

HotRod said it all. However if I may.

So with nothing to add to the conversation you stoop to judging my typing grammar?
Yes it took me by complete surprise. I thought we were all mature adults (within reason it is a game) so when you started spouting off terms like a 12 year old yelling at the screen it took me back a little. When I read the words the first word that came to mind was Elitist. My apology if I jumped to judgement.

And yes I would say making a room full of gun safes that respawn multiple times a day that you can loot in the safety of your home is gaming the system and is not legit, if you want to do that go PVE where it can’t bother anyone.
I concur. Well to the safe respawn thing not playing solo. I have no issue with anyone touring my establishment. You see I practice what I preach. Once I figured out it worked that way I stopped using them. Much like I have suggested to you for self imposed challenges to make the game more difficult (only eat canned food, food you have killed, use one tool and repair if lost/destroyed you have to find anotehr, only use a crossbow, only build with wood products, only drink golden rod, only go out at night etc.). I did not give into the games mechanics. I just dont use the 'safe' method. Also as for PvP since you keep up with the game and postings you know the game is first and foremost a PvE game. PvP is just tossed in at this time and has not been refined nor really looked at.

Then to try and force your Candy Crush version of the game on us and not be at least open to the idea of even trying another way for a short time when we have tried your way for weeks. Gezzz
MY Candy Crush... see again this is where you are wrong. I dont need the game to tell me how to play. I can adjust my play style to meet my needs. Case in point the safe respawn thing. I dont do it. Right now im on a self imposed quest to see if there really (as another player on our server stated) an ends to the earth. See what I did? I took the game in its current state and invented something.

I cant say how many times I have heard people complain about a game not doing this and not doing that. There are just so many different things to do..... it is called make believe for a reason. Make believe. Dont use the game as a crutch blaming it for your inability to to enjoy it in another way. There is no set way to play the game.

Im taking the game as it is currently and making the best of it. I can make it more difficult/challenging so can you.

In closing the same could be said to you Spider......   

if you want to do that go PVE where it can’t bother anyone.
If you want a true h.a.r.d.c.o.r.e PvP server please go find one. At this time I dont believe this one is. Yes it is PvP but it is not a true PvP server. MM has tried to make it a place where you can do a little of both. It just appears there is more Care Bears here. ;)
 

Offline The3rdMan

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2014, 08:20:05 am »
Well then…let’s get back to point.  Discussion of tossing the loot timers for a no respawn container setting..   

I don’t know if anyone is container farming or not, but I do want to remove the possibility. 

I also want to up the difficulty by having the definite possibility that if I enter an area it’s a distinct possibility that an area has been looted out, and food sources might be gone.     That once I have looted a city I need to have farms and a good working mine for this to remain a viable base.  (As I side not I am disappointed that they increased food spawning in the last patch.) 

I disagree with the idea of waiting around for vehicles.   I do agree that they would be an asset in PvP. allowing us to not only attract attention but allowing us to find groups.    As it is right now our group has been seeking out other players, but with only two of us on constantly (which is not a reflection on our fellow group members,) which has been making laying supplies easy, but branching out difficult.   Mostly one of us has been making scouting runs, looking for other groups.   We have found two as of yet, One of those has surrounded their base with stop signs so not much use there.    I have yet to see really anyone in our area either. 

Infinite maps are a detriment to conflict, but till we are given a random perimeter map, it’s what we have to work with.    Saying let’s waiting for the vehicles, or map solutions or whatever is just putting off what we could do today.   Hell I’m all for moving my base right now into area’s that are already “settled.”

As it is my opinion holds firm, the group, in general is favoring the idea that their cities can’t run out of supplies that the police stations will continue to produce possible gun parts (made easier that we can return to the safe over and over without ever having to chop through the walls again.)       As it is this game, as I agree with CMontster, is settling back into a lack of PvP  now due to non-provocation, due to distance and compliancy.   

If infinite map is the problem why not on the next respawn not only kill loot respawn, but also make an agreement that those of us interested in conflict head south of ground zero (0.0)?     And no I’m not saying north just becomes non-PvP, I’m just saying those of us with the juice head south increasing chances of interaction.   

All in all, it’s too easy…and yeah I’m considering leaving for a **** server again.

(Sorry for the scattered nature of the post, something drilled out before I get to work at my real life job.)



Aknot

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2014, 09:20:24 am »
But 3rd the issue is this is not (correct me if I am wrong MM) a h.a.r.d.c.o.r.e PvP (ok HC from now on!) server. It has never pretended to be.

Why do you want to remove the container farming? How does it effect your playing? It is not like auto aim, having an invulnerability method or powers of flight in game. (I am against the setting up multiple safes for farming purposes but hey it is a personal choice) So as I have asked others why cant you limit yourself? Why cant you impose restrictions on your play style within the server? If I have more bullets then you that just makes it more challenging for you... isnt that what you want?

The area being sparse has an adverse effect on people that are late to the server or cant play as much. When the map resets the early players will be like a plague of locust leaving nothing in their wake. So Joe logs on after not being able to play for 2 days and finds nothing. Dies repeatedly only to respawn back to square one where everything has been looted..... I ask again as I have asked of Spider..... if you dont want to loot a container more than once..dont. If you raid an area and feel you have cleaned it out... leave it alone dont come back. Why do others have to have a difficult/challenging time just because you want one?

Waiting around for transportation.... we are waiting around for everything actually it is a game in development. It is still in Alpha so it is not final. As for Stop signs... it was an agreed upon arrangement. Maybe the majority of players here really dont care for PvP. How is branching off difficult? (maybe Im not understanding the statement) I have set up one base and have branched off to at least two other places.....

You mention no one in your area.... why would people want to be in the same area if you had loot spawn off or severely extended? Especially if there were a chance for them to get their head shot off? Me im taking that and running as far away from people....

I agree with your opinion holding firm. However did you think maybe it is because there are more people that want to be just left alone and not PvP? The game is not PvP ready yet. At this point the only way I can see a viable PvP is if everyone who does not want to PvP friends everyone and turn FF off. That way even if I go near you or Spider you cant hurt me as we are friends. I say this as there is no way to discern from a distance friend or foe. 

I believe there was talk of the PvP people settling in a general area near each other yet that doesnt appear to have happened.... possibly in the future great idea. Im all for making the map less infinite. As for a place to move I hear RIP is interested in neighbors.... ;)

As for your HC comment at the end. One of the reasons I selected this server is just because of that reason. It is not a HC server. I dont think it has ever been touted as a HC server. I dont think it aspires to be a HC server. (of course as usual please MM correct me if I am wrong)

From the front page of Kamcraft.com :
It is a password protected, "friendly" PVP, survival server.
Although PVP is allowed, There are rules in place to keeps things civil.
PVP is NOT the primary function of our community.
We are more focused on socializing, building and killing some pesky zeds!



Offline MADMAN

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2014, 10:34:51 am »
You are correct Aknot. This was never meant to be a **** server. But we will need to make some adjustments to make it more challenging and therefore more interesting and enjoyable. Nothing too crazy though. :)

Aknot

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2014, 10:56:19 am »
You are correct Aknot. This was never meant to be a **** server. But we will need to make some adjustments to make it more challenging and therefore more interesting and enjoyable. Nothing too crazy though. :)

I say we blindfold people. That will really shake it up!

Offline The3rdMan

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2014, 11:02:55 am »
Let me see if I can address the adequately.   

The reason I am against container farming, be it in base, or scavenging an area is this:
First when food was really sparse…I loved it.  It really challenged me.   I did die, almost died a few times as a result.   If I am abiding by this difficulty and you are not in a PvP environment then you’re already a leg up on me.  Your health is higher than mine, the time that you have available to seeking my demise (and higher score), is higher.   The time that you have available to build better equipment is higher.   So essentially you will outrank me in all areas.          If your farming gun safes I imagine the speed in which you could assemble, or find a sniper rifle in this game would be much, much higher than I who had to loot several containers, travel to those container, all while trying to feed myself and my group.   We as a group have not been able to assemble a sniper rifle as of yet, if we went up against a group that has found a complete sniper rifle I imagine we would be at a large disadvantage.  Wouldn’t you?

Container farming is an advantage exasperated further by someone who has far more time to donate to playing the game than I.   Since it’s nigh impossible to mitigate that time advantage, we can at least compete in a scavenging post-apocalyptic world.

If a container re- spawns in the next day or two, why bother to defend a city?   So there is no conflict since there is no negative to letting someone else through the area.   This is the same reason I don’t generally play battlefield that much, accomplishment in the game is hollow.   It is the same exercise repeated several times.   

Oddly this is about work to have fun.    To make an analogy; Fun is also competing on a level playing field.   Where is the fun of an amateur athlete competing against a professional athlete?   

To add a further thought and explain why I believe it has be an entire group, rather than just limiting yourself is that the doing things as a group sets the personality of the server.   If half of the group is participating in a resource limited world, and the other half is not, then there will also always be resentment; which I believe we are seeing now.

Does that adequately explain it?   
Aknot, I understand your arguments, I just don’t agree with them.  This is the reason I am still lobbying for a  change in re-spawning rules.

Offline The3rdMan

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2014, 11:11:12 am »
Also as a quick side note to...this is not h@rdcore.  Asking that someone limit their supplies is a step in that direction.   H@rdcore to me is...complete drop on death, looting the other person's backpack on death, raiding bases completely, sabotaging/stealing farms in or out of base.      What we are arguing for is a making resources more difficult to come by in an infinite world for everyone.

Aknot

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2014, 12:07:25 pm »
3rd I hear ya and like you I understand what you want however like you I dont agree. Here is why.

First Paragraph:
You can always challenge yourself without having an affect on other players. I assume out rank means out gun as there is no real tracking of rankings in the game. So lets take your Sniper rifle example. The Sniper rifle and parts (only found in Ammo Crates BTW not safes) are a total random/luck thing. I have an area that no one has accessed with almost 11 Police Stations. I have only been able to create a Sniper Rifle thanks to trades with NegX after time and time raiding the same places, fighting off Zs and bees and those pesky exploding Police.  With the only place for Sniper loot (and other weapons) on a regular basis being the Police Station why not hole up in a Police station? Why not stake out a section in a city and reloot allowing others to have access to their stuff in another Police Station? I mean the cityscapes in this game just screams PvP. Loot respawn not realistic? Heck no but now you have two other 'teams' in the city doing the exact same thing.... trying to feed and arm their people all keeping an eye on the two other people in the neighborhood and keep Zs away.  Yet people (sorry Spider you posted the pic of your place) build bases that protect themselves on 3 sides from Zs out in the 'wild'.

Yet it appears no one is doing this...... Is it because of loot differential? I dont know but I only know of two people setup inside a city with each other and they are not even openly PvPing....yet... RIP is pushing the right buttons though... :D

"Container farming is an advantage exasperated further by someone who has far more time to donate to playing the game than I.   Since it’s nigh impossible to mitigate that time advantage, we can at least compete in a scavenging post-apocalyptic world."
Yet you appear to be shooting yourself in the foot. If you cant play as long as I you now have to go further for resources (food) because I have been on longer and picked the place clean. How does it benefit you if you log on and you cant find anything? How does it benefit you if I have the time to go out 3 clicks get enough for a pistol and shoot you because you cant defend yourself and or find food based on your available time for play? How is that fun, starving and or getting shot repeatedly cause you cant get a foothold.

"Fun is also competing on a level playing field." If everyone is on the same field of play there would be loot respawn allowing everyone the ability to get the same stuff in the same manner. Not loot once on day one no loot for the next person. You are essentially saying a person that plays for 10 hours a day and a person that plays for 2 hours a day (with no/limited) respawn is on a level playing field. They are not. The person playing 10 hours has the ability to lay waste to the land taking all resources within a limited area not giving that 2 hour person a chance. How is that a level playing field?

Your analogy of a pro vs an amateur is incorrect. A pro has more time and experience that is what makes them a pro. A level playing field is just that. A field of play that affords everyone the exact same resources and abilities. Turing loot spawn off or limiting it does not present a level playing field. As it stand now we all have the same chance to find a Sniper Rifle (parts). Turn loot spawn off and only the first person to get to that ammo crate does.

"If half of the group is participating in a resource limited world, and the other half is not, then there will also always be resentment; which I believe we are seeing now."
We are seeing a disagreement in the way the game should be laid out. Right now I see no person talking about making this game more challenging and actually attempting to make it challenging for themselves. Again sorry Spider but to build a fort shielded three sides from Zs is not even a challenge to the survival aspect. It is the 'easy' way out. I made it a rule (for myself) to not build a deep pit around my fort. I did make one deep pit trap to try and lure Zs in in when it became hairy... it kind of works. I am challenging myself and not doing the Safe, water entrance, Webs etc..... (not saying people are bad for doing it) because as you said that part is not really that realistic. If you do it I dont care.

Lets say the map is a square and the only direction you can go in are N,S,E,W. Even with 8 players going at it on the first 2 days you would be hard pressed joining in on the 3rd or 4th day to find anything. You now have a group (or sole person) that has access to everything and or the ability (food, weapons water) to travel further taking that much more. How is that not resentment that they can play two or three days more a week then I can, amassing a large cache of items and limiting my ability to level the playing field by finding something?

Im not pointing at you 3rd and saying you can play 10 hours a day.. heck I play way to much and the no/limited loot respawn would benefit me.... yet strangely im against it.....

I would (as mentioned in another thread) like to see loot degradation and a smaller map. Maybe on a percentage. 7 day loot say 1st loot 100% second loot in 7 days 75%, 3rd loot in 7 more days 50%, 7 more days 25%. So you may go from a  container that has 4 cans of food to three cans of food to one can of food to a possibility to get a can of food. I base this on the hey I may be able to scrounge better then you. So while you hit the container first and got the mother lode I was able to come in behind you and get some scraps. 

Smaller map quite frankly means closer community (for the good or bad - read PvP). While I enjoy the open expansiveness of the RGM It is not cohesive to a small community. 2 or three times the size of Navezgane I think woul dbe optimal for or group... maybe a little bigger. You want/need the chance of producing at least one of each biome and at least one city.

*** EDIT when I say day I mean real life days. Meaning If a patch releases on a Friday I may not get to play until 2 or 3 days later on Monday. T

Spider

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2014, 01:30:25 pm »
First @Hotrod – Chill out man! We are having a passionate adult conversation about the settings on a game we love to play together, as we have done in the past. I’ve been here since the forums opened and you are the only person to ever take everything people say so personally. If you can’t keep your emotions in check and add to the discussion like Aknot; 3rd; Negative and the rest maybe you just need to be quite and go back to the kiddie table. I mean OMG you don’t like me, I’m gona cry myself to sleep tonight because some menstruating, lactating internet person said they didn’t like me. As if. Your post is truly on the edge of trolling there is no purpose for it but to try and instigate trouble within the community. And if you agree with me then what’s with the longwinded pointless post that added nothing to the conversation we are having. Maybe you’re really my X Wife because she was the only person I ever meet that would argue with people they agree with.

Ok I’m done with that moving on.

Ok Aknot just because Hotrod has totally taking this conversation personal I just want to let you know that I do not not like you, you’re a cool guy, your good at the game and easy to get along with. You’ve helped me with things in the past and we have played well to gather I enjoy gaming with you. I also respect your opinion though it is different than mine. I do not believe you calling my play style HC (ya will go with that) is disrespectful to me and I mean no disrespect when I call yours Care Baer. During this whole 4 week debate I have at no time been mad or ****ed at anyone. I am just trying to get my opinion know and herd as are you.

Now with Random Gen we as a community were exploring the new game play and have been trying different settings and rules to see what works for the best game play for everyone. Now one side says no loot spawn will do one thing and the other side says no loot spawn will do a different thing. Now that we have tried one way why do you refuse to TRY (not keep forever) a different way. It would be simple to try out and find out easy peasy. And if telling others where to build how to build what to loot and not loot isn’t dictating play style I don’t know what is and that’s exactly what you are doing. Please let’s stop with the mythical late comers to the server how about we as a community discuss what we ”in” the community would like not what some unknown person that’s not here might or might not want in the hypothetical future. It seems like we will never solve this with a discussion, which is obvious. So the only thing left to do is to do what we set out to do with Random Gen. Try out different settings and rules to see what works for the best game play for everyone.

Trying No Loot Respawn with 9.2 hurts no one and can be changed without consequences at any moment. After we try it then we can decide if we like it, if it sucks and does not work I will be the first to say I was wrong and change it back. But I see no reason to not at the very least try it out.



Offline The3rdMan

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2014, 01:47:06 pm »
So I still find myself unwaived by your arguments Aknot.   You might find your opinion logical, but I take the opposite view point of the exact same issues.  I find personally loot re-spawn to be the opposite of a post-apocalyptic world.   So this is pretty much how I see the 7DTD world now…. (This is put sarcastically, but it is not meant as a direct attack on anyone.  It’s just way to express the point.  Disclaimer aside.)

Do I need to farm?  No- Not really – All I need to do is hit the post-apocalyptic world grocery store.  In the middle of the night the elves of the world have restocked the kitchens.    This includes all those are to find pieces like pots, grills, empty jars, the occasional bandages and such.   It’s like society never collapsed, the people are just out getting us more stuff!

Gun production - I just need to check the parts reject bins in each police station.  Some crazy guy keeps putting things in there.   (Where does he find the time to do that?)

Trade, why bother…they know that sniper rifle part will come up eventually…just gotta keep hitting those crazy part bins in the police station.  (Thank gawd we put a hole in the wall otherwise if that kept re-spawning it would be really inconvenient.)


Should I worry about my neighbors?  Likely – with about 10 hours of time under their belt a day they have amassed 10 hours’ worth of loot because doing things like farming, or mining, just doesn’t make sense to do.  So instead they stopped off looted and then took a tour around our base with their free time, which includes a run way out into the country and back.

Back to no-sarcasm…

Besides there is a re-spawn already built into the game which everyone has access to….air drops.   And I have gotten some pretty good stuff out of them.   

Yeah well time is a ****, and I can’t do anything about the fact that other people have loads of free time on their hands to play, but we could affect one factor, ability to collect, recollect, and then come back and collect again from the same container.     So instead of 10 hours of running around collecting,  from the same containers,  people with 10 hours a day will have to really travel to collect from the same containers or develop ways to produce that does not develop looting.

I personally think it affects the flavor of the game.   And before a single person brings up the realism factor, I’m aware of the fact that I play a zombie game.   So let’s leave the resources out, I’m just sticking to basic laws of physics.    Much like I don’t want to play a game where there is no such thing as gravity and I can place buildings in the air.   
Last I knew we didn’t have very many newbies, so I am not worried about them, and I am willing to help them if they pop up.   They just gotta say they are new and I will offer a bit of help or advice.  We all start in random places, so it isn’t a given that each and every area will be looted, it’s a risk.   After all I’m not after “fair” I’m after flavor.     I have never, ever seen anyone say….omg!   Where is the rum?  Why is the rum gone?!?!  Why cause there is always rum in this game.

The reason I made the pro vs amateur athlete argument is because Pro athletes have intangible resources behind them money from backers, further exasperated by all the time that they need by not having to actually work a wage job for a living.  So I think my analogy still stands.   

As Spider said, let’s try it…if it doesn’t work, let’s try something else. 

Offline Admiral Fatts

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2014, 01:53:14 pm »
I'm the crazy person who put 14 in game days, but I have reasoning for it.  I'm definitely in no way up for no loot respawn, I have starved and died of dysentery so many times it isn't funny, or fun for that matter. My play time is limited, I work every day (see I haven't had a day off in over 2 years!) but I enjoy logging in and playing and building. I'm a builder.

My reasoning for 14 days is that with the current day timing works out to twice a RL day, meaning I can get on and play before work, and after work.
Once a day, well that works out to the equivalent of daily quests in WoW in my mind. Yeah I have something to do that day and then once it's done, meh, I'm done, no bonus, no incentive.


Spider

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2014, 02:00:59 pm »
(Read in a whinny voice) uggg but I don’t wana play WOW.


No daily quest or I will swallow a pipe bomb and hug you.

Aknot

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2014, 02:01:13 pm »
"Please let’s stop with the mythical late comers to the server"

I dont mean mythical people that may show up that do not participate now. Im referring to the players we dont see much of. That only have x amount of time to play in a week.

I play WAY to much. Some people I see on as often as I some I only see really on the weekends or sporadically. These are the late comers I am referring to. There are actually people here that do not play every (real life) game day. If there were a loot once and done it would severely hamper their ability to do anything.

Maybe not that big of a deal if you are an associate of someone (OF etc.) however if you are a loner you are then forced to group up or die multiple times over before getting your legs under you. Or have a difficult time in clicking with your group as they play different times.

What I dont see being addressed is making the game difficult for yourself. If you want it difficult/harder/more challenging there is no reason not to handicap yourself. Why dont you do that? You keep saying that is not the way the game is supposed to be..or someone is forcing a game play style on you..... yet it is an option just like other options in the game. 

No one is saying you have to reloot containers. No one is forcing you to reloot containers. So if you don't doesn't that in effect allow you to play the game the way you want to and me the way I want to if I choose to reloot after 7 days? What does it matter to you if I have 500 cans of food and you only have 2? You are taking the more challenging approach... good for you as long as you are having fun.

Dont even bring up weapons as there is no consistent PvP on this server.

I just dont see what the no respawn will bring except for frustration in attempting to stay alive. And all that will entail is getting 'ahead' of someone while going further out then them. Why stay in a barren area? So in effect people will have to keep moving out further away from one another until they have gathered enough resources to setup a farm and that is IF they want to farm. Some dont. Those behind them will have to keep going out.

If the loot respawn is severely hampered or cut off I know (based on the way the game plays now) people will go further out and further away from one another. It is only common sense. Then what? Limit the size of the map? OK then you will have a group of haves and have nots. You know the people (like me?) that play way to much who can loot the 'world' and demand people pay me what I want or they starve..... yeah extreme...... but yeah I have seen it happen. (not on this game of course)

Spider

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Re: Loot re-spawn timer poll.
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2014, 02:32:57 pm »
"And if telling others where to build how to build what to loot and not loot isn’t dictating play style I don’t know what is and that’s exactly what you are doing." !!Again!!

If you have more time on than others and gather up all the loot from a city let’s say. All you have done is collect all the loot and put it into one place. So that I or someone else can come along and take it from your base in a raid. Look at that, you just doing what you do have added to player interaction. Well I’ll be.


This brought to you by! No Loot Respawn! Making people work for survival sense 10,000 B.C.

 

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